Interview with Editor Takeshi Fujiwara: Editorial Design for Zine Production
平田提
Takeshi Fujiwara, an editor, started his career at an editorial production company in Osaka, then moved to a publishing house, and later went independent. At Fuji Kōsakujo Inc., he handles a wide range of work, from magazine production to self-publishing and planning local events. This time, he generously shared practical knowledge on magazine production accumulated over more than 20 years of his career. We discussed this while looking at a pile of magazines he brought as reference materials. There should be insights useful for zine production too.
*The full episode can be heard on the podcast "Tsukureru Honya no Radio." This is the first part.
Magazine Photos: "Bright" or "Dark" - Which is Correct?
(A spread from an issue of the magazine "Otonagumi," for which Mr. Fujiwara once handled part of the editing. The photos were on the darker side.)
At the first editorial production company Mr. Fujiwara worked for, there was a strict rule that photos "must be bright." The photographer would provide three options: standard, one stop overexposed (bright), and one stop underexposed (dark), from which the editor would choose. Each time, the president would say, "No, this one," and point to the brighter option.
── The brightness of photos is tricky, isn't it? But choosing photos is fun.
Exactly. The president of the first production company I worked for was someone who believed photos had to be bright, so I was always made to choose the brighter one-stop-over option.
But at the next publishing house, it was completely the opposite. I'd get scolded, "Why are you choosing such silly-looking photos?" They'd say bright photos looked "silly." So, at first, I had no idea what was going on.
── That must have been confusing...
It was. But what I realized later was that both of them were just being crude in their explanations (laughs). Neither of them truly meant that overall bright or overall dark was inherently good. Rather, they both had a shared vision of an image that had a burst of brightness within shadows, or a strong interplay of light and shadow within beautifully sunlit scenes. That kind of contrast creates depth. They were just crudely saying "darker is better" or "brighter is better." Photographers, of course, understand this, so they shoot photos with a contrast between light and dark. That difference creates depth in the photos, giving a sense of layers to a magazine, which is a flat medium.
── I see. But whether brighter or darker is better also depends on the medium, doesn't it?
Completely. For an information magazine like "Rurubu," which has a lot of text and plenty of ink, brighter photos look better atmospherically. But for a more subdued magazine that conveys the mood of travel, photos with shadows add more depth. It's a matter of tone and manner.
"Bleed" and "White Space": Making Pages Look Wider or Deeper
── Looking at the magazines Mr. Fujiwara brought, the photos are used very largely, aren't they?
That's called "bleed," where the photos extend to the entire page. When you copy something with a home printer, you get a white border, right? If you cut off that white border, it becomes a bleed.
── What's the effect of a bleed?
If there's a white border, it looks like the content ends there. But if the photo goes all the way to the edge of the paper, it feels like it continues beyond. It creates an infinite sense of spaciousness within a limited size like A4. That's why it's often used for landscape photos or the opening pages of features.
Conversely, if there's a lot of white space around a photo, it creates a frame-like effect, and the eye is drawn tightly to the center of the photo. So, for things you want to show in detail, white space might be the correct choice.
── And using only bleed all the time can get boring, too, right?
That's right. Contrast. So, to create rhythm, we sometimes use "cutouts." Placing a photo where a person or object is cut out from its background increases the white space and adds variety to the page.
Even with bleed or white space, if you only use rectangular photos (uncut square photos), it becomes monotonous. Mixing in cutouts creates contrast and adds movement.
It varies depending on the magazine, feature, article, and purpose, so you can't say which is universally best. It's determined by the flow between the previous and next pages, and the overall context of the magazine.
・Related article: What is Bleed? Essential Settings to Check Before Zine Submission
Grids and "Breaking" Them
── I like "relax," and when I look at magazines from the 2000s, I get the impression that there are many cutouts. The photos and text are arranged very precisely, aren't they?
(In the foreground is an issue of 'relax' featuring Mike Mills, and in the background is a 90s issue of 'BRUTUS', featuring a young Jun Takahashi of Undercover.)
Looking at "relax" again, the grid layout is impressive. The page is divided vertically into 3 or 4 columns, and all the photos and text are aligned along that grid. It's a basic principle of information organization that dates back to the Bauhaus era, and it felt clean and stylish.
── They even used fonts like Helvetica. On the other hand, a 90s issue of "BRUTUS" looks completely different, doesn't it?
They completely broke it (laughs). It seems to have moved away from grid layouts and been designed freely. Text runs diagonally, and some text is handwritten. Zines can also achieve that kind of freedom, right? But constantly being free gets tiring, so it's important to be meticulous where you want the reader to focus and create contrast.
── The text is often laid out very close to the top and bottom edges (of the book). Even in recent issues of "POPEYE," they sometimes place text right up to the top and bottom.
That's right. In the past, printers used to tell us, "Don't go all the way to the edge," because it was technically difficult. Now there aren't as many restrictions, so I think there's more freedom in how things can be used. I'm not entirely sure, though. But conversely, some things are returning to grids. I like magazines from the 90s, and I always get hints about what magazines should be like from them.
"Don't Pres-et" — Dialogue with the Designer and Photos
── What's the typical workflow when creating a magazine page?
It's easier to decide on the text and layout first and then fit the photos in, but that's called "pre-setting," and I used to get scolded for it a lot when I was at the publishing house.
── Why is that bad?
If you decide the layout beforehand, you tend to just force the photos into it once they arrive. It's like a blog post, where photos, text, photos, text are just arranged uniformly. Magazines aren't just that. It can be much better to boldly change the layout to suit the photos. I think designers have room to be creative only after all the materials are in place.
However, if you don't pre-set, sometimes progress doesn't go smoothly, so it's a balance. "This photo is a big splash! And the next one is small," the designer, photographer, and editor used to gather and decide with excitement back in the day.
── That's difficult now, isn't it, with remote work and such?
It's difficult. Since communication happens through email or LINE, it's hard to have the same kind of interaction as before. So now, with production costs decreasing, there are also ways of working where one person shoots, writes, and lays out everything. Decisions are made quickly because it's all done by oneself.
── Zines are similar in that regard. On the other hand, it might also be harder to come up with unexpected layout ideas.
In that sense, I think looking at those 90s magazines I mentioned would be stimulating.
Conscious of a Page's "Weight"
Looking at "Obento no Jikan," a famous corner in ANA's in-flight magazine "Tsubasa no Oukoku" that Mr. Fujiwara brought, it's laid out in four columns, but there's a large blank space at the top.
(“Obento no Jikan” from “Tsubasa no Oukoku”)
── This has quite a bit of empty space at the top, doesn't it?
If the top and bottom margins were perfectly equal, it probably wouldn't feel as settled.
── So, having space at the top gives it a sense of stability?
When there's space at the top, the weight goes down. The center of gravity is at the bottom, so it's stable. Conversely, if you pack the text at the top, it creates a sense of floating. But even that can work in certain situations.
Magazine Photo Techniques Cannot Be Transferred to the Web
── Looking at the 90s magazines Mr. Fujiwara brought, they don't look old at all, even now. But these techniques can't be translated to the web, can they? When considering responsive design that changes layout for mobile and PC, magazine designs that integrate photos and text are absolutely impossible. They would have to be images or fixed layouts.
That's right. White text over photos, bleed photos, dynamic layouts across spreads—they all work precisely because they're on "paper." So, looking at a lot of magazines can provide hints for making zines.
── If you're used to smartphone photos, magazine photos can feel dark, can't they?
Definitely, definitely. If you're used to luminous RGB screen photos, when you look at printed photos, they tend to feel "a bit dark." But you know, if you make them brighter, they can look silly (laughs). Maybe it's better to reset your eyes by looking at a lot of magazines regularly. I don't know, though.
(This article is edited based on the recording of "Tsukureru Honya no Radio." In the second part, we will hear about Mr. Fujiwara's current work and his perspective on zines.)
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